The debate was hilarious. The ad for the Oliver Stone film was less so. I'll remember the first and hope the second is recognized for the hatred that produced it. I know that you didn't want to share the commercial, just the skit.
Humor is one thing and is approriate, even necessary, for politicians who take themselves too seriously. Vindictiveness, and making money off of it, never is good business or good politics. Oliver Stone clearly belives otherwise.
I do not agree with many things that President Bush did. But I do respect him as our President.
Dad, Once again it was me that made the post and not Wynn. Secondly, I had no idea what you where talking about when I read your comment. Mark and I watched the clip last night and there was no commercial after the clip so I had to go back and skip to the end to see what you were talking about. In relation to the add I only watched about 15 seconds before turning it off as I was not something I felt I wanted to let pollute me on Sunday. Sorry about the clip they added in there at the end.... for future watchers just x-out the scene when you are done. ok?
Let me tell you a story I never told anyone....I was abducted by aliens for a period of two earth weeks....
The ad at the end of mine was for "Religulous", a new movie which is more unsettling than "W".
I wanted to add my thoughts on the new "W" movie coming out. Stone, whether or not he actually will, wanted to give a "fair, true portrait" of George W. Bush. He sincerely believes that he is producing an objective view, albeit dramatized. I am interested in the movie. A person like George Bush fascinates me. How did he go from numerous failed oil businesses to president of the U.S.?
I personally have seen a lot of Mormons who feel it is wrong to criticize and question what the US president does and who he is and how he hold the office. I think that is partly because of our belief in our president of the church. We have been taught not to question the leaders of our church but to follow them and trust their counsel.
The founders of our country did not feel the same way about the executive office. They had seen the corrupt power and evil that came from tyrannical powers and created checks in balances for the executive office. Our system is designed to question the president. It is not unpatriotic to question the president and his motives and how he holds the office. Just because a person holds the great office does not make him more than a man (in the church we believe that he is not an average man--but a prophet), but for me personally a man/woman must live up to the expectations of the office.
Stone's movies, while controversial, have brought about some good. His movie JFK helped to expose government secrecy and create transparency. I read that he read 17 different books on the life of George W. Bush in preparation for the script and production of the movie. Not a bad way to get to know someone.
Maybe Stone should have gathered his information from "the horses mouth" as I prefer truth and accuracy to sensationalism and a means of making money.And that SLN clip was hilarious. I have not seen the one with Tina Fey but would like to. Did I ever tell you that I was also abducted....
I appreciate your desire for fairness and honest criticism. You may dislike Rush Limbaugh for the bias he presents in his views of "truth". I do too and it just gets under my skin when someone takes a morsel of truth and then implies all kinds of things from that.
Oliver Stone, despite his supposed desire to "tell the truth" is also someone who has always had an agenda. His films have never been about truth, they have always been about Oliver's latest agenda. And he uses exaggeration with great effect to further his ends. That is the pattern he has demonstrated during his entire career.
Has he changed his pattern on this film? Do you think he doesn't have an agenda, that he doesn't want to make George Bush look like an idiot who has hurt this country with his idiocy?
I don't mind people having opinions. I respect Oliver Stone's right to his. But I do grow tired of his self-righteous desire to "get to the truth". Please.
I wish Mr. Stone would tell it like it is and give us a little truth. He wanted to make a film to savage George Bush, whom He detests. It's not much more complicated than that. To wrap this film in a quest for truth makes Mr. Stone every bit as disingenuous as Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Be they liberal or be they conservative, they are still demagogues.
How's that for my real feelings about the state of political discussion in the country today?
I've been thinking about this. I think James' has some good points. we are trained to unquestioningly respect our leaders in the church and that can translate to that same attitude towards people who are not divinely appointed. However we are taught respect, even among differences. So no matter how much I do not like Bush's policies I believe that I should respect him as a person because he is a child of God. Bush however has been the force behind thousands of deaths. Thousands. These are innocent men and women, some evil men and women, and many soldiers. James in technically in the Army now and knowing that a man such as that has control over the safety of my husband makes me feel sick. Bush does not have immunity from criticism, indeed as our leader he must be accountable. I believe the question to be- what is appropriate criticism? There is not much harm in the usual political activist groups and dinner-table discussion, the health of this nation depends on differences and expression. But this movie will be released over seas. The world will participate in laughing at our president, they will believe whatever truths or non-truths are presented, and that will affect our whole nation. If Bush were not in office, I would be fine with the movie, but the timing is just not right for our country. I think it degrades not just the man, but the office, and in turn our government. And if there is something worth keeping safe from world-wide disdain it is that our nation has a respectable government system, even if the current leader has destroyed most of our international ties anyway.
12 comments:
Wynn,
The debate was hilarious. The ad for the Oliver Stone film was less so. I'll remember the first and hope the second is recognized for the hatred that produced it. I know that you didn't want to share the commercial, just the skit.
Humor is one thing and is approriate, even necessary, for politicians who take themselves too seriously. Vindictiveness, and making money off of it, never is good business or good politics. Oliver Stone clearly belives otherwise.
I do not agree with many things that President Bush did. But I do respect him as our President.
Daddio
Dad,
Once again it was me that made the post and not Wynn.
Secondly, I had no idea what you where talking about when I read your comment. Mark and I watched the clip last night and there was no commercial after the clip so I had to go back and skip to the end to see what you were talking about.
In relation to the add I only watched about 15 seconds before turning it off as I was not something I felt I wanted to let pollute me on Sunday.
Sorry about the clip they added in there at the end....
for future watchers just x-out the scene when you are done. ok?
Let me tell you a story I never told anyone....I was abducted by aliens for a period of two earth weeks....
oh, and i agree with your comment too, daddio
The ad at the end of mine was for "Religulous", a new movie which is more unsettling than "W".
I wanted to add my thoughts on the new "W" movie coming out. Stone, whether or not he actually will, wanted to give a "fair, true portrait" of George W. Bush. He sincerely believes that he is producing an objective view, albeit dramatized. I am interested in the movie. A person like George Bush fascinates me. How did he go from numerous failed oil businesses to president of the U.S.?
I personally have seen a lot of Mormons who feel it is wrong to criticize and question what the US president does and who he is and how he hold the office. I think that is partly because of our belief in our president of the church. We have been taught not to question the leaders of our church but to follow them and trust their counsel.
The founders of our country did not feel the same way about the executive office. They had seen the corrupt power and evil that came from tyrannical powers and created checks in balances for the executive office. Our system is designed to question the president. It is not unpatriotic to question the president and his motives and how he holds the office. Just because a person holds the great office does not make him more than a man (in the church we believe that he is not an average man--but a prophet), but for me personally a man/woman must live up to the expectations of the office.
Stone's movies, while controversial, have brought about some good. His movie JFK helped to expose government secrecy and create transparency. I read that he read 17 different books on the life of George W. Bush in preparation for the script and production of the movie. Not a bad way to get to know someone.
Maybe Stone should have gathered his information from "the horses mouth" as I prefer truth and accuracy to sensationalism and a means of making money.And that SLN clip was hilarious. I have not seen the one with Tina Fey but would like to. Did I ever tell you that I was also abducted....
http://www.newsweek.com/id/163448/page/2
I thought this was an interesting article referencing Stone's sources and his historical accuracy.
this is first page of the article:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/163448
James,
I appreciate your desire for fairness and honest criticism. You may dislike Rush Limbaugh for the bias he presents in his views of "truth". I do too and it just gets under my skin when someone takes a morsel of truth and then implies all kinds of things from that.
Oliver Stone, despite his supposed desire to "tell the truth" is also someone who has always had an agenda. His films have never been about truth, they have always been about Oliver's latest agenda. And he uses exaggeration with great effect to further his ends. That is the pattern he has demonstrated during his entire career.
Has he changed his pattern on this film? Do you think he doesn't have an agenda, that he doesn't want to make George Bush look like an idiot who has hurt this country with his idiocy?
I don't mind people having opinions. I respect Oliver Stone's right to his. But I do grow tired of his self-righteous desire to "get to the truth". Please.
I wish Mr. Stone would tell it like it is and give us a little truth. He wanted to make a film to savage George Bush, whom He detests. It's not much more complicated than that. To wrap this film in a quest for truth makes Mr. Stone every bit as disingenuous as Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Be they liberal or be they conservative, they are still demagogues.
How's that for my real feelings about the state of political discussion in the country today?
Daddio
zingers! from both sides. how exciting.
I've been thinking about this. I think James' has some good points. we are trained to unquestioningly respect our leaders in the church and that can translate to that same attitude towards people who are not divinely appointed. However we are taught respect, even among differences. So no matter how much I do not like Bush's policies I believe that I should respect him as a person because he is a child of God.
Bush however has been the force behind thousands of deaths. Thousands. These are innocent men and women, some evil men and women, and many soldiers. James in technically in the Army now and knowing that a man such as that has control over the safety of my husband makes me feel sick. Bush does not have immunity from criticism, indeed as our leader he must be accountable.
I believe the question to be- what is appropriate criticism? There is not much harm in the usual political activist groups and dinner-table discussion, the health of this nation depends on differences and expression. But this movie will be released over seas. The world will participate in laughing at our president, they will believe whatever truths or non-truths are presented, and that will affect our whole nation. If Bush were not in office, I would be fine with the movie, but the timing is just not right for our country. I think it degrades not just the man, but the office, and in turn our government. And if there is something worth keeping safe from world-wide disdain it is that our nation has a respectable government system, even if the current leader has destroyed most of our international ties anyway.
Wynn I really enjoyed your thoughts on all of this. You are such a peacemaker!
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